| ID: | 3123 |
| From: | Anthony Tuttle <ke...@gmail.com> |
| Date: | Sat, 8 Jun 2019 10:14:18 -0500 |
| Subject: | Re: [pcb-rnd] project state + camv-rnd progress |
| in-reply-to: | 3120 from ge...@igor2.repo.hu |
| replies: | 3124 from ge...@igor2.repo.hu |
--0000000000004a22af058ad1672f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have wanted a gerber viewer that can render PCBs in more photorealistic colors so it's easier to understand what I'm looking at and compare with a physical board. Would it be able to do this? On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 5:35 AM <gedau@igor2.repo.hu> wrote: > Hi all, > > for a week I worked on camv-rnd and I have the first results to show. > > 1. what is camv-rnd? > > It will be the viewer of our -rnd suite, capable of opening any file you'd > normally send to a fab to get your pcb professionally made. This would > include: > > - gerbers > > - drill files (gerber or excellon) > > - IPC-D-356 (needed for automatic electronic testing) > > - one dialect of p&p files (needed for assembly) > > Furthermore we could long temr support a few other formats that are also > supported by pcb-rnd on the import side, e.g. HPGL. > > > 2. Why do we need a new tool? Isn't gerbv good? > > Gerbv is generally good, but: > > - gerbv development generally stalled lately > > - ... and even when it was going, it was not in par with pcb-rnd on speed > > - I have a plan about getting genxproj into production state and make our > ecosystem more affecting for Eagle users who are planning to switch; for > that I need some ecosystem related features implemented in the gerber > viewer, which doesn't seem to happen in gerbv any time soon > > - gerbv depends on gtk, glib and 2.7.0 even has c++ parts - which means > there are hosts where pcb-rnd runs fine, but gerbv is either hard or > impossible to compile. > > - gerbv uses a autotools > > So after looking at the source, considering all options, I decided it's > cheaper to write one from sratch. > > Camv-rnd is building on the same infra pcb-rnd uses, so multiple > HIDs, no hardwired glib dependency, no autotools - so it's a bit more > portable. At the end, when it's ready for production it will generally run > on any system pcb-rnd runs on (which will definitely include C89 systems > without glib, gtk, c++ compiler, etc). > > I also want to provide a strong CLI support, including being able to > compile camv-rnd without GUI (using the batch HID) for automated exports, > including command line within the GUI, including fungw scripting. > > > 3. When? > > We already have a testable versions (for real hardcore users), but it's > very far from being usable. I started with the hardest parts and they are > done: booted the hidlib, got camv-rnd GUI and basic infra up based on the > hidlib, wrote a gerber parser and a gerber state machine that can render > the files into objects I can display. > > I expect we'd have the first version that is somewhat easy to compile and > test within 2 pcb-rnd cycles after the next release. But this part depends > more on pcb-rnd (and pcb-rnd's hidlib) releases than on camv-rnd. > > After that we'll probably need to run some beta test period using real > board data and if it's not more broken than other gerber viewers out > there, we can make a stable release. > > If everything goes well, this stable release could happen next year. A lot > depends on _coordinated_ user testing. > > > > 4. Wait, what's -rnd? And the suite and ecosystem? > > Imagine it as an onion. > > The innermost group of software is our EDA suite, which at the moment > consists of pcb-rnd and genxproj. camv-rnd joins here and later on, when I > have the time to write cschem, that will join here too. The suite share > developers/users and a lot of concepts and code. However, this does not > mean these programs are integrated in any way or you have to use them all > together. They are all replacable. Since pcb-rnd's name ends in -rnd, and > nobody had a better idea, I decided to start naming the whole suite rnd - > but there'll be another mail about this. > > Then the next layer around this is the 'tight ring' of the coralEDA (the > ecosystem) - tools that are not part of the suite, but are closely > related. These tools work very well together with our suite and other > coralEDA projects, but they do have different developers following > different concepts along different choices. Xschem for example is heading > to the tight ring: it does a lot for supporting features we need for > coralEDA. > > Then the outmost layer around this all is the 'loose ring' of coralEDA, > where we have tools that work together with the rest of the ecosystem > tools to some degree, but are not actively trying to join the 'tight > ring'. Gerbv for example is in the loose ring. > > Regards, > > Igor2 > > --0000000000004a22af058ad1672f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I have wanted a gerber viewer that can render PCBs in more= photorealistic colors so it's easier to understand what I'm lookin= g at and compare with a physical board. Would it be able to do this?</div><= br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat,= Jun 8, 2019 at 5:35 AM <<a href=3D"mailto:gedau@igor2.repo.hu">gedau@ig= or2.repo.hu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding= -left:1ex">Hi all,<br> <br> for a week I worked on camv-rnd and I have the first results to show.<br> <br> 1. what is camv-rnd?<br> <br> It will be the viewer of our -rnd suite, capable of opening any file you= 9;d <br> normally send to a fab to get your pcb professionally made. This would <br> include:<br> <br> =C2=A0- gerbers<br> <br> =C2=A0- drill files (gerber or excellon)<br> <br> =C2=A0- IPC-D-356 (needed for automatic electronic testing)<br> <br> =C2=A0- one dialect of p&p files (needed for assembly)<br> <br> Furthermore we could long temr support a few other formats that are also <b= r> supported by pcb-rnd on the import side, e.g. HPGL. <br> <br> <br> 2. Why do we need a new tool? Isn't gerbv good?<br> <br> Gerbv is generally good, but:<br> <br> =C2=A0- gerbv development generally stalled lately<br> <br> =C2=A0- ... and even when it was going, it was not in par with pcb-rnd on s= peed<br> <br> =C2=A0- I have a plan about getting genxproj into production state and make= our <br> ecosystem more affecting for Eagle users who are planning to switch; for <b= r> that I need some ecosystem related features implemented in the gerber <br> viewer, which doesn't seem to happen in gerbv any time soon<br> <br> =C2=A0- gerbv depends on gtk, glib and 2.7.0 even has c++ parts - which mea= ns <br> there are hosts where pcb-rnd runs fine, but gerbv is either hard or <br> impossible to compile.<br> <br> =C2=A0- gerbv uses a autotools<br> <br> So after looking at the source, considering all options, I decided it's= <br> cheaper to write one from sratch.<br> <br> Camv-rnd is building on the same infra pcb-rnd uses, so multiple <br> HIDs, no hardwired glib dependency, no autotools - so it's a bit more <= br> portable. At the end, when it's ready for production it will generally = run <br> on any system pcb-rnd runs on (which will definitely include C89 systems <b= r> without glib, gtk, c++ compiler, etc).<br> <br> I also want to provide a strong CLI support, including being able to <br> compile camv-rnd without GUI (using the batch HID) for automated exports, <= br> including command line within the GUI, including fungw scripting.<br> <br> <br> 3. When?<br> <br> We already have a testable versions (for real hardcore users), but it's= <br> very far from being usable. I started with the hardest parts and they are <= br> done: booted the hidlib, got camv-rnd GUI and basic infra up based on the <= br> hidlib, wrote a gerber parser and a gerber state machine that can render <b= r> the files into objects I can display.<br> <br> I expect we'd have the first version that is somewhat easy to compile a= nd <br> test within 2 pcb-rnd cycles after the next release. But this part depends = <br> more on pcb-rnd (and pcb-rnd's hidlib) releases than on camv-rnd.<br> <br> After that we'll probably need to run some beta test period using real = <br> board data and if it's not more broken than other gerber viewers out <b= r> there, we can make a stable release.<br> <br> If everything goes well, this stable release could happen next year. A lot = <br> depends on _coordinated_ user testing.<br> <br> <br> <br> 4. Wait, what's -rnd? And the suite and ecosystem?<br> <br> Imagine it as an onion.<br> <br> The innermost group of software is our EDA suite, which at the moment <br> consists of pcb-rnd and genxproj. camv-rnd joins here and later on, when I = <br> have the time to write cschem, that will join here too. The suite share <br= > developers/users and a lot of concepts and code. However, this does not <br= > mean these programs are integrated in any way or you have to use them all <= br> together. They are all replacable. Since pcb-rnd's name ends in -rnd, a= nd <br> nobody had a better idea, I decided to start naming the whole suite rnd - <= br> but there'll be another mail about this.<br> <br> Then the next layer around this is the 'tight ring' of the coralEDA= (the <br> ecosystem) - tools that are not part of the suite, but are closely <br> related. These tools work very well together with our suite and other <br> coralEDA projects, but they do have different developers following <br> different concepts along different choices. Xschem for example is heading <= br> to the tight ring: it does a lot for supporting features we need for <br> coralEDA.<br> <br> Then the outmost layer around this all is the 'loose ring' of coral= EDA, <br> where we have tools that work together with the rest of the ecosystem <br> tools to some degree, but are not actively trying to join the 'tight <b= r> ring'. Gerbv for example is in the loose ring.<br> <br> Regards,<br> <br> Igor2<br> <br> </blockquote></div> --0000000000004a22af058ad1672f--
Reply subtree:
3123 Re: [pcb-rnd] project state + camv-rnd progress from Anthony Tuttle <ke...@gmail.com>
3124 Re: [pcb-rnd] project state + camv-rnd progress from ge...@igor2.repo.hu